Histamine Well Podcast: Exploring Histamine, Methylation & Holistic Health

The Connection between Methylation, Gallbladder Health & Histamine with Nutritionist Olivia Hass

• Joanne Kennedy • Episode 12

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In this episode of the Histamine Well podcast, Joanne dives into the connection between methylation, detoxification, and gallbladder health. Joined by nutritionist Olivia Haas, they discuss how impaired methylation affects bile flow, leading to gallbladder dysfunction and increased histamines. 

Olivia explains the essential role of the gallbladder in digestion, detoxification, and overall health. They cover early warning signs of gallbladder issues, appropriate testing, and the interplay between estrogen dominance, mold, and oxalate sensitivities. Practical recommendations for dietary and supplement support for gallbladder and liver health, both pre- and post-surgery, are also discussed. 

Olivia also speaks about her specialized programs and memberships designed to assist patients with gallbladder concerns. 

This episode is packed with insights and actionable advice for both practitioners and patients.

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Joanne Kennedy:

Hi, it's Joanne. In this episode, we're diving into the connection between methylation, detoxification, and gallbladder health. We'll explore how impaired methylation can lead to sluggish bile flow, gallbladder dysfunction, and even increase your histamines. Whether you're a practitioner or someone navigating these health challenges, this episode will help you connect the dots when it comes to gallbladder health. Welcome to the Histamine Well podcast designed for practitioners and patients alike. This is your trusted source for insights on histamine intolerance, methylation, gut health, women's hormones, and much more. I'm Joanne Kennedy. Your host, naturopath, author, and educator, passionate about breaking down complex science into clear, accessible knowledge. Whether you're a health professional or navigating your personal wellness journey, the Histamine Well podcast bridges the gap between cutting edge research and practical understanding to empower you with the tools to thrive. Hi everyone. Today I'm joined by nutritionist, Olivia Haas, all the way from California. I know Olivia as she is one of the practitioners who has gone through my histamine and methylation online group coaching course. And I can tell you, she is a world of knowledge when it comes to everything to do with the gallbladder. Olivia has a very niche area of clinical practice, which is gallbladder health. She offers one on one consultations as well as two online programs, the gallbladder removal reset and the gallbladder saver society membership. Hi, Olivia. Thanks for joining us today.

Olivia Haas:

Hi, Dr. Kennedy. Thank you so much for having me.

Joanne Kennedy:

Guys, Americans all call me doctor. I love it.

Olivia Haas:

Calling you by your first name.

Joanne Kennedy:

Oh, it's sweet. It's funny. I've done some podcasts with practitioners in the U. S. And I said, we're not naturopathic doctors. We're just naturopaths. And they can't help it. Doc. They call me doctor or doc. No, it's really sweet. So Olivia, we're going to just jump straight in. Because I know that our listeners with gallbladder issues really suffer quite badly with their health. Especially in the lead up to having surgery and post surgery. So I'd just like you to explain. First of all, just what the role of the gallbladder is in the body and why it's so important to overall digestion and overall health.

Olivia Haas:

Yeah. So the gallbladder is a lot of times deemed as this unimportant organ. But it's in our body for a reason. And it really does play a vital role with digestion, detoxification, metabolism, and overall health. So your gallbladder basically is kind of like a storage tank. And it's a storage tank for this substance called bile. So bile is a soapy like substance that made of things like cholesterol, mostly water, bile acids, minerals, phospholipids. And basically this bile is produced by the liver and it goes into the gallbladder and it stores in the gallbladder. When we have, you know, when we go to eat a meal. It'll signal the gallbladder to release the bile. And then the bio comes in and basically the gallbladder squeezes out the bile. And biles, one of its main roles is to help digest down fats. That's one of its main roles, but bile is a very important substance in our body beyond fat digestion. It supports detoxification. It also helps support healthy gut. Help support motility. So the gallbladder plays a role with this bile flow and release a bile. And then the bile comes in and does all of its amazing functions. So you can see when the gallbladder has trouble, and we're not releasing out the bile. We're going to obviously deal with symptoms that are associated to like poor bile flow in the body. And typically that starts with fat digestion. It is where most people start to notice that they have gallbladder issues. Is that they can't digest fats or they have symptoms associated to poor fat digestion.

Joanne Kennedy:

And what would those symptoms be, Olivia?

Olivia Haas:

Oh, okay. So there's many uncomfortable symptoms and this is why most people with gallbladder issues can often sometimes, it leads to surgery for some individuals. Because what typically happens is when the gallbladder starts to show signs it's struggling, we may deal with more fat intolerance around mealtimes. So we may feel nauseous, we'll get reflux, bloating issues, sometimes sense of urgency after meals. And this can be an indication that we're not digesting our fats well. And then certainly like gallbladder issues can progress further and possibly lead to gallbladder attacks. And gallbladder attacks are the most painful thing. If you've had one, I completely sympathize with you. They're often the reason why most people move forward with surgery, because they just will stop you in your track. A lot of times people will go to urgent care with their first gallbladder attack because it's just so shocking to the system. Obviously gallbladder issues are very common amongst females. And even a lot of my clients, they'll say gallbladder attacks are almost worse than child labor. So that just explains how bad they are. And what happens typically. Is you may start to feel nauseous after fatty food. You may get some pain in your upper sternum, and sometimes it moves over to the upper right quadrant. Sometimes up to your back, up to your shoulder. For some people, it feels like a heart attack. And then when you have attack, sometimes you'll have symptoms of like, sense of urgency. Lots of light colored stool. May feel nauseous. You may vomit. Sometimes fever. So it just doesn't feel great and it can last anywhere from, uh, you know, 15, 30 minutes all the way up to several hours. And so you do want to be careful with the gallbladder attacks and you can understand why typically people move forward with surgery is because dealing with gallbladder attacks, it really takes a toll on you physically, mentally. That's often reason why, you know, people move forward with surgery. And then keeping in mind that the gallbladder plays a role with fat digestion. You'll start to maybe also experience issues with fat soluble vitamin deficiencies. Vitamin D deficiency is a really common one with people with gallbladder issues. You'll have drier skin, brittle nails. Sometimes hair loss can be associated with it. And then if we don't digest our fats well and we're not absorbing our fat soluble vitamins. This can affect our thyroid. So then maybe we have some thyroid symptoms going on. Sluggish metabolism there. And bile also is a form of detoxification. So if that bile is impaired due to poor gallbladder function, poor bile release. Then we're going to start to see people sometimes develop poor symptoms associated with poor detoxification. And this can be anywhere from like constipation to increased chemical sensitivities. Um, you know, hormonal imbalances. These are all things that can be a result of when the gallbladder is either poor functioning or we're not releasing out the bile properly.

Joanne Kennedy:

So Olivia, just so our listeners can write down some sort of symptoms that they should be looking for. Initial symptoms. Like what would be some of the niggly things that people could potentially be having that are warning signs that things are hitting downhill when it comes to their gallbladder health?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, certainly. So I think the top three early warning signs is obviously like intolerance to fatty foods. So if you feel icky after fatty foods, that can be a sign. Constipation, bloating are the biggest ones. And I wish I had known this on my journey. My journey started with um, uh, anti candida diet. I was eating a higher fat diet. And the practitioner at the time didn't catch the constipation and bloating at that time. And fast forward, I started dealing with chronic gallbladder attacks. And I wish that more people understood that bloating, constipation can often be signs of issues with bioflow or there's something going on with your gallbladder or liver. And it's hard because obviously like constipation, bloating. You know, it can be associated with so many other gastrointestinal issues, right? If you have chronic constipation, chronic bloating, you do have to consider what's going on with your gallbladder, your liver and that bile output.

Joanne Kennedy:

Okay. And is there any testing that people can do initially? What would be the best test to do initially?

Olivia Haas:

So if you suspect you have gallbladder liver issues, generally like you do want to do some blood work. Obviously, you can run like a liver function test. You can include things on there like GGT homocysteine. These can be indications that can be showing signs that could be leading to gallbladder liver dysfunction. But typically like most people start with an ultrasound. And the ultrasound is used to rule out if there's like gallstones or sludge present first. And then certainly like if someone doesn't have gallstones or sludge, but they have all the other presenting symptoms of gallbladder, then there's possibly an issue with the function. So then that's a possibility where you might want to explore doing a HIDA scan with the ejection fraction where they'll actually test what rate your gallbladder is contracting at. so that's typically, and then obviously you can dive into functional testing as you work on the causes of poor gallbladder health, um, and that can just depend on the person.

Joanne Kennedy:

Right. So before we get to the causes, I just want to go back to homocysteine. So why would be retesting homocysteine as a marker of potential gallbladder issues?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, so I use homocysteine to really dive into methylation. And I know you're the expert of this so I'll let you kind of piggyback on this. But I use homocysteine to give a snapshot of how someone is methylating. And the reason why this is important when it comes to gallbladder liver health is because typically, as gallbladder warriors, we struggle to methylate. We struggle to detox. And methylation is one of the leading causes of gallbladder liver issues. Because methylation is necessary to detox hormones and toxins in your liver. And basically that impaired methylation can lead to an accumulation of toxins, right? And any of that accumulation, we're not detoxing estrogen properly. We're not detoxing toxins. All of this is going to alter Bile flow and make it really thick and, super saturated. And that will cause gallstones to develop. It can drive fatty liver issues. So that's kind of a great way to look at how someone is methylating and then I typically use that in conjunction with like an organic acid test. Which is a functional test to look further at methylation issues.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. Great Olivia. So it's really interesting guys. One of the roles of methylation is to actually create phosphatidylcholine, which is part of bile acids, isn't it Olivia? Bile acids. Now, so methylation, um, SAMe is the co factor for an enzyme called PEMT, P E M T enzyme. That enzyme uses a lot of methyl groups. So that enzyme and another enzyme called GAMT that produces creatine for energy. Those two enzymes take up 80 percent of your methyl groups. And because phosphatidylcholine also makes your cell membranes, but it's a component of bile acids. So people that are under methylating can have massive issues with phosphatidylcholine production. So there's many, many links, isn't there? It's interesting. And Olivia, it's just so often that women. Oestrogen dominant women end up with gallbladder issues. Could you explain what estrogen is doing to the gallbladder?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, certainly. So estrogen is one of the other leading causes of gallbladder problems because it will do the same thing. So we have to look at like, Gallstones form in the body typically from an issue, like gallbladder issues typically are a liver issue too, right? We have to take that into consideration. And gallstones form when the bile that is produced by your liver basically becomes too thick. And it's going to lead to supersaturation of cholesterol to bile acids in the bile. And this will be very thick. Then it goes into the gallbladder and maybe the gallbladder motility is slow for various reasons. And this puts us at a higher risk of gallstones and sludge to develop because this bile is not moving freely throughout the gall from the liver to the gallbladder. Okay. So estrogen is a promoter of cholesterol supersaturation bile. So when we have excess estrogen levels, we're not detoxing it properly from the body. This is going to cause cholesterol supersaturation in bile, which forms gallstone sludge. And then estrogen can also decrease gallbladder motility. So we have a combination of cholesterol supersaturation and poor gallbladder motility. And you basically have the recipe for gallbladder sludge and stones. And this is a big problem of one why gallbladder issues are very common among females, especially during pregnancy, postpartum into perimenopause years is because of that hormone component. So when we look at a gallbladder diagnosis, it's not just the gallbladder. And we really have to look at our hormone health because this is a big driver of gallbladder problems, right? And at the end of the day, the body's all connected. And this just goes to show us there's a huge connection between your hormones and the gallbladder. Your estrogen is one large one. And so your thyroid has the same effect and we do need to take that into consideration.

Joanne Kennedy:

Fascinating. So Olivia, I can so clearly see these patients coming to see you also being a bucket of histamine. Because in my mind, if these women have sluggish bile, poor detoxification, constipation, high oestrogen. They are often going to be presenting with a lot of histamine symptoms. Have you found that?

Olivia Haas:

Oh, totally. Yeah. And I've personally, I'm dealing with this on my own too. And my postpartum years, I couldn't really detox, right? I couldn't detox properly in conjunction of having constipation problems and that bile output not being optimal. And I am not clearing histamine. And you see this all the time with individuals with gallbladder issues and it almost like increases even post surgery but it goes back to our bile and your liver health your gut health when it comes to those histamines. But You need adequate bile flow to remove toxins, including excess histamines from the body. So if your bile flow is sluggish due to gallbladder dysfunction or having no gallbladder and the bile is not optimized, then certainly histamines can build up. And that bile is also an antimicrobial so it's helping protect the health of your small intestine. It's helping to digest down fats and protect against bad gut bacteria. And if again, we're having issues with bile from poor gallbladder function. Poor bile output. No gallbladder. You can see where the health of our gut is going to increase histamine issues. And then certainly your liver, you have to take into consideration your liver when it comes to histamines and poor methylation. And this is a big miss with most people. And I see it significantly in individuals post surgery who are really, really struggling with their liver health and methylation problems. They're really not breaking down histamine properly. I think you had actually brought this to light one in your practitioner coaching program. But I think several of my gallbladder saver society members did consultations with you and they were struggling with crazy histamine symptoms after having gallbladder attacks, right? And so you kind of brought this connection to me and I was like, Oh my gosh, it really is a big factor. With people with gallbladder liver issues. We really do struggle with excess histamine. Whether we're trying to save the gallbladder post surgery, I see it all the time.

Joanne Kennedy:

And what symptoms would these people be presenting with, Olivia? With histamine? What are the common histamine symptoms, you say?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, I think the big ones for gallbladder liver world, you see like itchy skin, diarrhea, bloating, feeling nauseous, increased PMS symptoms. Sometimes after the gallbladder attacks, you know, they'll feel like a lot more heart palpitations sometimes. Lots of itchy skin after the gallbladder attacks, which can obviously be the liver. But when, you know, their liver function test is coming back, you have to question if there was like a histamine response after the attack.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. It's just, they're really inflamed. They're just chronically inflamed, which is just driving up their histamine in a really big way. It's interesting. I do, I'm working with a lot of these patients, Olivia. And a lot of them have mold. Most of them have mold. Mold disrupts the bile flow. Is that correct?

Olivia Haas:

Correct, and it will impair the gallbladder emptying. So again, gallbladder issues stem from stagnant bile. Typically like super saturation bile, from impaired liver detox pathways or methylation, and impaired gallbladder emptying. So mold mycotoxins will really affect both. So you'll see that with individuals that are in a mold situation. Let's say they get rid of gallstones, but they still may deal with gallbladder dysfunction symptoms. So they may still report a lot of like upper right quadrant pain quite frequently. And you see that a lot with impaired gallbladder emptying.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. It's, it's so linked mold illness and gallbladder issues. What about oxalates Olivia? Are you aware of what can happen with disrupted bile and fat absorption with oxalates?

Olivia Haas:

That's the one that I actually have not spent time to research. So I actually am not aware of that.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. So I can speak to this. So, What can happen is when there's disrupted bile flow, um, which can just happen. Yeah, Olivia, with disrupted, with gallbladder issues. You have disrupted bile flow, sluggish bile, and you have, or potentially too much bile, it can bind up to your calcium. And what we need to bind our oxalate is calcium. So often I see patients. They're not necessarily gallbladder patients, but people that are just pushing too much fat in their diet and just putting a load on the gallbladder and the amount of bile acids that they need. They end up having massive oxalate issues because they've got way too much bile. So it's quite an interesting link. And the other thing is that mold. A lot of the mold species also contain oxalate. So what I'm now starting to see. Is this combination of women with mold illness, high oxalates, high estrogen and gallbladder issues. And methylation disruption.

Olivia Haas:

Correct. Yeah. You see that a lot on the organic acids. Right?

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. The high oxalate with the high mold. Yeah. Interesting. So for our listeners, what would be some of the things that they could do to sort of start looking after their gallbladder and sort of if they think potentially I'm at, I'm at risk, I've had mold illness. I have an oxalate problem. I'm estrogen dominant. There's gallbladder issues in my family. I've had, um, a gallbladder attack before. All these things. What are some of the things that people can do to support the health of their gallbladder?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, certainly. So when we talk about gallbladder health, we're also talking about the liver health. So any of these recommendations are for you if you're working to save your gallbladder or post surgery and you're trying to improve your liver. So we have to look at cleaning up the diet and basically detoxing our diet and lifestyle. So when you have a history of gallbladder liver issues, number one thing I always want you to remember is it's a long term lifestyle change. It's not a temporary diet that you go on. A lot of the effort that you do to save your gallbladder, improve your liver health are things that you want to keep up for the rest of your life. and it'll help significantly. So We need to start looking at the foundations first and cleaning up your diet and detoxing your diet. So simply put, focusing in on eating whole foods over processed foods, right? eating more meals at home is a simple way you can kind of start with the diet. Then you can start to look further at the diet and certainly include in key nutrients that help support your gallbladder and liver. One of those is going to be fiber. Fiber acts as a natural binder to different toxins, excess estrogen. So fiber really is a star player in a gallbladder liver diet. When you start out with fiber, always go slow and increase slowly, especially if you're not able to tolerate fiber. And then if you're, not able to tolerate fiber completely, which can be common. We have to dive further to look at what's going on with your digestive and gut health. The fiber super important. Work on water intake. So most of bile is made up of water. So if dehydration is present, you can assume that that's going to also contribute to cholesterol supersaturation and bile. So making sure you work on, uh, habits around water intake. Certainly work on constipation. That's your phase three liver detoxification. If you're clogged up with constipation, which I understand this a hundred percent. Dealing with gallbladder issues, chronic constipation has been a story of my life. it is very hard. And so you do want to explore any factors that are contributing to constipation. So whether it's dietary. If it's hormone driven. Whatever it is, you need to work on getting those bowels moving because the idea is we need to bind to toxins, bind to excess estrogen, remove them out from the body. If we're not doing this, all of the toxins are recirculating back up to our liver and it's obviously going to continue the vicious cycle of poor detoxification, poor bile output. Okay.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. Great. Olivia, can I just, can I just ask you, what are your favorite fibers that you use?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, so we obviously look at inside the diet. So like soluble fiber. Soluble fiber will be coming from Gluten free oats. If you can handle beans, legumes, lentils, those are nice. Doing things like acacia fiber or even like partially hydrolyzed gorgon sun fiber. Those are just kind of easier to drink. Great sources of soluble fiber, have some prebiotics. And then certainly you want to look at your fruit, vegetable intake. So I usually aim personally for like two to three cups of vegetables per meal. and then you want And then again, I think I mentioned beans, but beans also have that natural binding effect. So that's why you read a ton about different beans in a gallbladder diet. Obviously you have to individualize your legumes and lentils, all that stuff for your own dietary needs. any of your health concerns, but those are different things. And ultimately you just want a variety, right? You want a variety of different Colorful fruits and vegetables in the diet because this is going to give your body different nutrients. It's going to give your body different antioxidants. Your liver requires a ton a ton of nutrients. And so if we're depleting it in anything from Colorful fruits vegetables amino acids healthy fats It's going to really struggle to do its 500 plus functions. One of those being creating bile which helps support the gallbladder.

Joanne Kennedy:

Hmm. Interesting. Do you know what I, all I can hear is people saying, but I've got SIBO and I can't, I can't have fiber. Yeah. It's so what do we do with SIBO patients that fiber makes them worse, especially the legumes.

Olivia Haas:

Yeah.

Joanne Kennedy:

What do we do?

Olivia Haas:

It's really challenging. Obviously you can't do legumes and lentils with someone that has SIBO starting out. You have to work on this SIBO, right? Really work on your digestive health and then certainly if you need to do like a SIBO eradication protocol to help. But this is where like if you have fiber intolerance, you really do need to consider this. And. It's important you, you brought up a very good point is that SIBO often overlaps with gallbladder issues and even becomes more common post surgery. So certainly it could be a big driver of fiber intolerance in someone's diet. So you can certainly use some soluble fiber sources that are typically SIBO friendly. You may have to modify those vegetables. Whether you're having histamine issues or intolerant to FODMAPs. I would certainly work with someone if you suspect SIBO gallbladder or you have no gallbladder and have SIBO, it's a lot more complex. So this does require a lot more one on one work.

Joanne Kennedy:

It does Olivia, because you have a combination of, you know, you don't tolerate FODMAP foods and you don't tolerate histamine foods. And you're not tolerating your fats either very well. It is a complex one. Partially hydrolyzed guagam is FODMAP friendly. So it's low FODMAP. So it is something that someone with SIBO can definitely use. But it's very chicken and eggs. Bile and SIBO. It's a SIBO bacteria deconjugate bile as well. Is that right? It breaks the bile apart from you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Olivia Haas:

That's an important one for people post surgery.

Joanne Kennedy:

Before we go any further, I want to speak directly to the practitioners and students listening. If you're intrigued by histamine intolerance and eager to expand your knowledge, particularly around methylation and how to apply this understanding in clinical practice, we offer the Histamine and Methylation online group coaching course. The only program of its kind. It covers everything you need to know about histamine and methylation. Providing both the theory and guidance you need to treat these issues effectively in clinical practice. To learn more and apply, visit joannekennedynaturopathy.Com

Olivia Haas:

The one foods I forgot, that are really helpful for people that have SIBO and histamine problems are usually bitter foods. Usually they can handle more bitter foods in the diet. And those bitter foods really help support digestion, bile output, and can help support your liver. So bitter foods are things like arugula, radish, ratatio. If you can handle apple cider vinegar. These are all things that can be nice if someone is dealing with SIBO.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yep, absolutely. These are often instances where taking antibiotics to get rid of SIBO can be a really good idea. Because if you are struggling with multiple food intolerances, then you're actually not getting the nutrients you need for your liver health. And it's very, very stressful. So I find sometimes, you know, just doing a round of the Rifaximin to get rid of the SIBO. And start with a clean slate and a healthier liver and gallbladder can often be what's warranted for some patients. Yeah, because the diet's hard. It's very, very restrictive. And then we're causing massive issues with nutrient deficiencies. So if you're a listener, you know, sometimes there are circumstances where allopathy can really, really help you alongside natural medicine with getting the best outcome. So Olivia, what are your favorite supplements? Liver support, gallbladder support supplements?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, so, I think the top ones that I personally find most helpful is choline, obviously. So phosphatidylcholine, or in the form of choline CDP, is going to help support reduction of liver fat. Help improve that bile composition. Help improve fat digestion. So if someone can't handle bile salts, sometimes going in with choline can be helpful. And then we have bile salts, but they need to be individualized. But typically we have two forms of bile salts, which are ox bile and TUDCA. Ox bile is used more to support fat digestion, absorption of fat soluble vitamins. So in the case someone that may have a poor functioning gallbladder, you have fat soluble vitamin deficiency, you may want to consider using ox bile after meals. And then the other one is TUDCA. TUDCA is another form of bile acid. It'll promote a lot of bile flow but it also targets your liver. So there's a lot of research on it that shows that it can help reduce down liver enzymes, reversal of fatty liver. If you have your gallbladder, it can really push the gallbladder initially. So just be careful initially starting out. If you do have sensitivity, if you do have a sensitive gallbladder, meaning you have frequent gallbladder attacks, frequent gallbladder pain, you're probably better off starting with like ox bile and then moving into a TUDCA. So there's not a one size fits all for Biosalts. You just have to find what works best for you. And then for individuals post surgery, you certainly want to caution. With use of Bile Salts specifically Oxbile in the case of situations like bile acid diarrhea because it can break the bile acids, contribute to more of a diarrhea. Histamine effect in the body which you see quite often. Fiber is key. So again, you can use supplemental fiber. Acacia fiber is gentle, so is partially hydrolyzed guar gum. Sun fiber. Magnesium can be supportive for constipation, but also needed for liver function and methylation. And then with your B vitamins, you know, this is where there's like a mixed opinion on this, right? If I'm doing individualized B vitamins is best or doing more of like a B complex. This is where it has to be individualized and sometimes doing an organic acid test, which is a functional test that can look further at your nutritional markers needed for your liver and for methylation can be super helpful for people with gallbladder liver issues. Cause they'll tell us which B vitamins you really need to support your liver and support methylation to get things moving. And then certainly you can use herbs. So I love herbal medicine as well. The two herbs that typically you use in gallbladder liver world are called choleretics and cholagogues. So choleretics target specifically the liver. They have regenerative or preventative properties on the liver. They can also support the bile being produced by the liver. And those are things like milk thistle, and then you have your cologogues, which stimulate more of the gallbladder to contract and release out. The bile, and those are things like artichoke and dandelion. you just want to caution with certain kohlrabi herbs. If you are dealing with like frequent gallbladder attacks, or you have stone stuck in your bile ducts or bile duct obstructions. Then typically we would just want to stick to choleretic herbs. So you do want to be careful with that. But these are all herbs that are different supplements that may be considered, but certainly have to be individualized.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. Absolutely. What about n acetyl cysteine? Are you using that a lot for liver?

Olivia Haas:

Yep. Yep. That one's really nice too, to support liver glutathione. Again, you can use the organic acid test. Some people might need a little bit more of the glutathione. so going in with like a liposomal glutathione or doing NAC can be great to target the liver too.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. Very nice. So Olivia, I know that you specialize in all gallbladder issues, but you've got a real niche with the post gallbladder surgery people. That's because you've had your gallbladder out. Is that right?

Olivia Haas:

No, I actually haven't.

Joanne Kennedy:

You've saved them.

Olivia Haas:

I'm still on a journey to save it again. Is what I say, but yes. I have a history of gallbladder sludge. Gallbladder dysfunction. So biliary dyskinesia and polyps. I'm on a journey to save it again is what I say because it's last year. I actually had some changes in my gallbladder, my polyps and was diagnosed with fatty liver. Which I'm uncovering is largely, I have some thyroid issues and mold exposure. Yes, so I relate to the mold histamine issue with the gallbladder liver a hundred percent to anyone listening. It's not fun. but yes, I did uncover that and you helped me actually.

Joanne Kennedy:

the mold. I just can't, guys, honestly, I'm the mold whisperer. When people are struggling and they're not getting better and things keep relapsing. Honestly. Wow. Was the mold in California?

Olivia Haas:

It was. Yeah. And I didn't realize it at the time, but my husband had developed tremors. And we were chasing post 2020 virus for a long time as the reason for his lot tremors. And then this last year I developed ear ringing and his increased histamine symptoms. And you helped me uncover that because you said typically post virus long term virus infection. Is often tied to mold. So that's why I started dive down that journey and tested the home and confirmed that. So going on a mold journey now.

Joanne Kennedy:

Wow Olivia, Okay. That's really fascinating. So Olivia, so there's mold detected. What are you doing for your mold regarding binders and stuff?

Olivia Haas:

So that's the tricky thing is that I am still breastfeeding. So I am limited on what I'm doing. So right now I'm really trying to do a lot of drainage work at this time. what I mean by drainage is working on the bowel issue because it's affecting my thyroid. And when you have sluggish thyroid issues, it's going to affect constipation. It's going to slow down your metabolism. It's going to slow down that gallbladder function. Right? So the big thing that I'm working on right now is drainage before I do any detox work because I can't push detox if my system's clogged up. I'm doing a lot of work on my colon, trying to get my bowels moving and then I'll move into more detox. we just moved away from the mold situation.

Joanne Kennedy:

You got to get out of the mold. How's your husband's tremors out of the mold?

Olivia Haas:

They are still there.

Joanne Kennedy:

Okay. He probably needs to have to get some binders in.

Olivia Haas:

For him, we'll work on more detox strategies.

Joanne Kennedy:

Interesting.

Olivia Haas:

It'll be interesting to see it. Yeah.

Joanne Kennedy:

It's so interesting. I have patients come to me. They've done their gene reports. They've done so many different protocols and they just chronically constipated. And it's like, we need to stop here. We need whatever we need to get those bowels moving. Whatever we need to do. Because there's just no point if you're not pooping, you're not pooping out your undigested food, bad bacteria, toxins, estrogen. It's a problem. What have you found useful for your bowels?

Olivia Haas:

Well, with the thyroid affecting it. It's kind of making it a bit challenged. I am working on a lot of minerals right now. So really increasing my potassium, sodium, magnesium intake has helped. I do have to really increase and focus in on stomach acid. I found that to be helpful. I am taking extra bile salts right now with meals and then certainly like if I don't see my bowels moving Then I will do coffee or water enemas. And sometimes I'll do like castor oil packs beforehand, but those typically I have brought them in because I need to. I need get the toxins out. and so it's the only thing that's really, until I can get my thyroid improved upon. I think it's really playing a factor with the constipation.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. So interesting. Olivia, thank you for sharing that. Just what's your TSH? 243. What are your levels?

Olivia Haas:

I don't even remember. I just reviewed them this morning. I'd have to go back.

Joanne Kennedy:

No, that's okay. That's okay.

Olivia Haas:

My T3 was very low. I know that. And my T4 is borderline. I think my TSH is coming in at, if I remember it's around, I think 3. 8. So It's within range, but my T3 is well below range.

Joanne Kennedy:

When TSH is tracking higher than two, it's a warning sign. But the lab ranges are like 0. 5 to four or five. It's way too broad. One of the lab ranges that are way too broad is thyroid, TSH. Because if you're tracking over two, it's heading in the wrong direction.

Olivia Haas:

Correct. Yeah.

Joanne Kennedy:

I hope you can get it all sorted. It's a lot, isn't it?

Olivia Haas:

Me too. Yeah.

Joanne Kennedy:

Do they do desiccated thyroid extract for T3 in the U S?

Olivia Haas:

Yes, they do. I have a naturopath that is going to be helping me with that. she has a history of liver issues, postpartum. So I was like, okay, perfect. I need some guidance in this and thyroid issues. The thyroid issues is not new to me. I've had it, you know, back in my twenties. So I've always had, The trifecta of gallbladder, liver, and thyroid issues. So I knew probably a couple of months ago I started seeing trending thyroid symptoms. Probably should have acted on it a lot sooner.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah, we had a lot going on.

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot juggling, you know, a family and a child and a business on top of it. So sometimes your knees, you forget about that.

Joanne Kennedy:

No, I know but it makes you an amazing practitioner. So Olivia, like, so for those that have had to have surgery, what are some of the things that are helpful? I know you've touched on a bit of this, but I just want to be like targeted. What we're going to say here, what are some things that people can be doing to help themselves post surgery?

Olivia Haas:

Yeah. So, post surgery is a little more complex because people can have a wide array of symptoms, right? And there's a lot that goes involved in people who are struggling with like digestive and metabolic challenges post surgery. And I just have to say to anyone listening to this too, just cause you remove your gallbladder. Does not mean you'll have symptoms.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah.

Olivia Haas:

Okay. Um, I just have to emphasize that not everybody does. Obviously as a gallbladder nutritionist, I deal with people who are very sick and so people are coming to me post surgery because they're very sick. So I see a different side of it, but please keep in mind a lot of these short long term side effects of gallbladder surgery can be prevented. You just need to be proactive about supporting your digestive health. Your liver health, and a lot of these long term or short term symptoms can be avoided. Okay, it's very important but unfortunately A lot of patients are told they don't need to change their diet post surgery. They don't need to do anything to support their digestive liver health. They can eat whatever they want post surgery. And you can imagine this advice over the years is going to have a compounding effect, especially because your liver takes on a lot more stress post surgery and that change in bile. when we're not optimizing bile can have a downstream effect on your digestive health, your metabolic health, your detoxification. So you can see where individuals post surgery struggle because one, they aren't told what they should be doing in this, in, uh, you know, this focus, but two, if they're not optimizing their digestive health, specifically that bile and continuing to do a lot of liver support. They may start to deal with a wide variety of digestive symptoms. Increased histamine issues. Increased sensitivities. Liver issues, because they're struggling with a lot of poor liver and poor methylation. And, um, so people post surgery, the takeaway from this is that you do need to really support your digestive health, your liver health.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah.

Olivia Haas:

And this goes back to making sure you work on the foundations, as I mentioned before. So. continuing to eat a health promoting diet. when we talk about health promoting diet, simply put its whole foods over processed foods. We're eating, you know, a balanced diet of protein, amino acids, healthy fats, and fiber. So making sure you still prioritize that. People post surgery typically do better with like smaller frequent meals. Giving that break of three hours between their food that kind of naturally binds to bile acids, helps recirculate the system. And especially it's super helpful for people with like bile acid diarrhea or bile reflux. Can be key there. You know, and then going back to like the bitter foods are nice. Using the different supplements to target. Helping to support the loss of concentrated bile. So those are things like bile salts. Again, you have to individualize those, especially if you have increased histamine issues, bile acid, diarrhea, bile reflux. You have to caution with the bile salts. You know, supporting the liver, whether you do herbal medicine, homeopathy, looking at targeted B vitamins, NAC, glutathione, individualizing those supplements for you.

Joanne Kennedy:

Beautiful.

Olivia Haas:

Yeah, it just, there's many different things that can really depend on the symptomology of people post surgery.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. I think, I think the message is that you don't just walk away from surgery. And it's true that the doctors can say, Hey, on your way. You'll be right. No convalescence. No, no chat about diet. They potentially don't think it's diet related when it absolutely is. 100%. Yeah. So people just need to really watch their diets and look after themselves. Olivia, can you tell our listeners about the course that you've got? The two courses, you've got two online courses and a membership?

Olivia Haas:

Correct. So for people trying to save their gallbladder. I have my gallbladder saver society membership. So this is a wonderful resource. I'm trying to make it like the ultimate education hub for gallbladder, liver health, and your overall health. The recommendations and the membership are targeted to addressing the causes of gallbladder issue. So your diet, lifestyle, thyroid issues, methylation problems, insulin resistance, it doesn't dive too much into like mold protocols and like viral bacterial infections. Those typically require more one on one work. But it gives you a really good baseline. And then the nice thing with the membership is I, I bring in guest experts once a month, and so I'll have guest experts speak about different topics. So they may speak about mold and SIBO. And so it's really nice that the members get to learn from so much. And then my gallbladder surgery programs are evolving. So I'm actually coming out with a post surgery membership. And it's called the Gallbladder Gone Support Society. So that's going to be coming in a couple of weeks. And that's for people post surgery that want to optimize their health post surgery through targeted nutrition, lifestyle strategies. Continue to work on the cause of why they remove their gallbladder. continue to work on your digestive liver health, which can help start reversal of common digestive metabolic challenges. So that's going to be coming in the next couple of weeks. And then certainly I dive in with individuals more one on one. And so I do a lot of one on one work for people that are navigating a little bit more challenging issues. If that makes sense, whether trying to save their gallbladder, a lot of pregnancy postpartum care. Juggling gallbladder symptoms and just try not to have attacks during that time. So we can be a mom, which is like very challenging. And then obviously diving into more challenging digestive and metabolic challenges post surgery.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah. That's wonderful, Olivia. It's so needed what you're doing. I really take my hat off to you. It's wonderful. It's such a niche area. It's so it's gallbladder is it's funny. Not many naturopaths specialize in gallbladder. Do they?

Olivia Haas:

No, they don't. I think there's going to be a much more increase focusing on it. Obviously with the rise of metabolic health. You know, with the rise of toxicity, you've seen a lot more gallbladder liver issues. Sometimes gallbladder liver issues, they go beyond diet lifestyle. I mean I know this firsthand with myself, right? I have a Great diet, lifestyle, but there's toxicity issues going on. And unfortunately we can't avoid them in our world anymore. If not, it's, it's increasing. And the gallbladder and liver really take a hard hit from that.

Joanne Kennedy:

Yeah, they do. You'll have to do a practitioner training course as well, Olivia. Add that to your list of things to do. Yeah, no, it's wonderful. For what I do histamine and methylation, it is quite difficult to package that up on an online course and a membership. You're dealing with methylation, you're dealing with gut, you're dealing with oxalates and mold and you're dealing with thyroid and you're dealing with each. You're just dealing with everything. But with gallbladder having a membership site, that's so targeted to that particular issue. And I know there's lots of things that drive it. I'm sure that it's great and people will be able to find such amazing information on there because you just can't find reputable information on gallbladder. What to do to save it. What to do post surgery. Like it's really hard to find that information. So thank you for putting that all together. And I'll everyone, I'll link all of that in the show notes so you can easily find Olivia. Do you see patients all over the world?

Olivia Haas:

I do.

Joanne Kennedy:

Great. Yeah. So you'll see Australians. So I'll put all of Olivia's information in the show notes. So Olivia, but just quickly, where can people find you?

Olivia Haas:

Yes. So you can contact me on my website. It's a gallbladderdiet.Com. I'm mostly on Instagram at gallbladder. nutritionist. So that's the best place to get ahold of me.

Joanne Kennedy:

Perfect. Wonderful, Olivia. Well, thank you so much for your time. You're an absolute world of knowledge. It's been amazing. I look forward to our continued collaboration.

Olivia Haas:

Yes. Thank you for letting me spread the goblet.

Joanne Kennedy:

You're welcome. Thank you. So thank you for joining me. I hope you found this episode beneficial. Be sure to subscribe to the histamine well so you don't miss an episode. Leave a review and you can also share this episode with someone who could benefit if you have any questions you'd like answered. Or have a topic you'd like me to discuss, please go to my website, joanne kennedy naturopathy.com, where you can provide us with that information. Until next time, take care and be well.