Histamine Well Podcast: Exploring Histamine, Methylation & Holistic Health

Balancing Oestrogen & Histamine: What Every Woman Should Know

• Joanne Kennedy • Episode 4

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In this episode of the Histamine Well podcast, Joanne delves into the intricate relationship between histamine and oestrogen. She explores how histamine can stimulate excess oestrogen production and vice versa, leading to a range of symptoms such as migraines, dizziness, anxiety, and digestive issues. 

Joanne discusses the impact of factors like methylation, gut health, and enzyme functionality on this dynamic. She provides practical advice on managing these issues, including dietary adjustments and supplementation. 

Joanne also highlights the role of perimenopause in exacerbating histamine-oestrogen interactions and offers strategies for hormonal balance. Listeners are encouraged to explore deeper through additional episodes and resources.

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Joanne Kennedy:

Ladies, if you are struggling with histamine related hormonal issues, including migraines, anxiety, insomnia, PMS, or a worsening of preexisting histamine symptoms at certain times in your cycle. This episode is for you today. I'll be discussing the connection between histamine and estrogen, including how histamine stimulates the release of estrogen from the ovaries. We'll also explore how high estrogen can lead to excess histamine in several ways. Including degranulating mast cells, releasing histamine, triggering histamine released from nerve cells in the brain, and reducing the DAO enzyme that breaks down histamine. You'll also learn about the signs and symptoms of this estrogen histamine link. We'll touch on estrogen detoxification, the comped enzyme and methylation, and why women in perimenopause are at higher risk for histamine issues. And I'll share my approach to balancing hormones, including my favorite supplements. Welcome to the Histamine Well podcast designed for practitioners and patients alike. This is your trusted source for insights on histamine intolerance, methylation, gut health, women's hormones, and much more. I'm Joanne Kennedy. Your host, naturopath, author, and educator. Passionate about breaking down complex science into clear, accessible knowledge. Whether you're a health professional or navigating your personal wellness journey, the Histamine Well podcast bridges the gap between cutting edge research and practical understanding to empower you with the tools to thrive. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today, we are discussing the fascinating link between histamine and oestrogen. Firstly, I do need to say that not surprisingly, there is very limited research in this area. However, clinically, it's something that myself, the girls that work with me, the girls I've trained in my practitioner training course have seen consistently with our female patients. So what's going on? Well, firstly, one of the major roles of histamine is to stimulate oestrogen from the ovaries. This is normal,. But what can happen when there is a buildup of too much histamine is that, that excess histamine can cause an excess production of oestrogen from the ovaries. And then what can happen is that oestrogen then in turn can stimulate more histamine. And it does that in a few ways. So firstly, mast cells that degranulate and release histamine, they actually contain oestrogen receptors. So the oestrogen binds to the mast cells and can stimulate the mast cells to release histamine. The other way oestrogen increases histamine is that oestrogen gets into the brain it's meant to. We have these histaminergic neurons in the brain. So the nerve cells in the brain. And they have oestrogen receptors. And the oestrogen, if it's too high, is going to overstimulate those receptors and stimulate those neurons to release excess histamine. So if all's going well and our oestrogen levels are balanced. And we're detoxifying it properly. And we don't have too much histamine in the first place, then that's not a problem. But when there is a bit of a histamine bucket in the first place. As well as an oestrogen dominant woman, then there is a high chance that you could have a lot of symptoms. And the symptoms will be when histamine is being released in the brain, it will cause headaches right through to migraines. Dizziness right through to vertigo. Anxiety, insomnia, depression, and inability to regulate your body temperature, as well as nausea and vomiting. Which is often described as like motion sickness. So a lot of women will say to me that they can't actually drive in a car at certain times of their menstrual cycle. And when it comes to the other histamine symptoms driven up by ooestrogen, it can be a worsening of any of your pre existing histamine symptoms at ovulation when ooestrogen is peaking. And then before menstruation when the progesterone drops and your ooestrogen is unopposed. So it could be reflux and heartburn. It could be loose stools or frequent bowel motions. Abdominal pain. It could be skin issues like acne, eczema, hives, itchy skin, red skin. It could be respiratory issues, wheezing, shortness of breath. Asthma. These are just some of the histamine symptoms that can get worse at ovulation and then before menstruation. So when it comes to some women, it can also be just an increase in all your symptoms throughout the whole luteal phase. So their histamine bucket seems to be more full in that luteal phase. And it's often just due to high oestrogen compared to progesterone. So what else is going on? Well, oestrogen actually down regulates the DAO enzyme. So the DAO enzyme is the enzyme that breaks down histamine. It's the enzyme that breaks down histamine outside the cell. In particular, it's dealing with histamine in the gut. So a lot of women will say, Oh, I'm very sensitive to high histamine foods at certain parts of the menstrual cycle. Which is because the DAO enzyme is reduced in its functioning due to too much oestrogen. Therefore you don't have enough DAO to be breaking down the histamine in the food. So another thing we really need to understand about this interesting link between histamine and oestrogen is methylation. So methylation is important for breaking down both histamine and oestrogen. And it does this via enzymes called methyltransferase enzymes. So one of the methyltransferase enzymes is the histamine N methyltransferase enzyme. That enzyme requires a methyl group to function. And how we get methyl groups is that we create SAMe in the body. So if you want to know all about methylation, you can go to episode three, where I discuss all of this. But essentially, our body makes SAMe and SAMe goes around the body and it donates these methyl groups. So histamine N methyltransferase uses SAMe as a cofactor. A cofactor essentially means it makes the enzyme function. So obviously methylation is very important for breaking down histamine. And interestingly, the DAO enzyme is absent in the central nervous system. So when it comes to neurological histamine symptoms, headaches, migraines, anxiety, insomnia, et cetera, we rely on methylation. The other thing that's important with methylation is that it works on an enzyme called the COMT enzyme. That's catechol O methyltransferase enzyme. And the COMT enzyme breaks down or detoxifies oestrogen through the liver. So the COMT requires SAMe as the cofactor. So you can see people with methylation issues are going to have problems breaking down oestrogen and breaking down histamine. So this is where it really gets like a bad chicken and egg situation where all the histamine is stimulating the oestrogen. And then all the oestrogen is stimulating the histamine. So what can we do? Well, we first need to work on establishing the root causes of why your histamine is high in the first place. There are many reasons. If you go to episode two, you'll hear an episode all about the major reasons people can have high histamine that I see in my clinical practice. The common reasons are gut issues, including SIBO. So the thing with SIBO is that not only does it release histamine, it also reduces the absorption of methyl donor nutrients, including vitamin B12 and folate. So you need to absorb folate. It will then get converted into methyl folate with the MTHFR enzyme. And along with methyl B12, these are methyl donor nutrients. They help the body make SAMe. And remember, you need SAMe for COMT and HNMT to break down oestrogen and to break down histamine. So if you've got SIBO, it's increasing your histamine, which is not good. And then you have a reduction in the nutrients you need for methylation. So this is something that we commonly see all the time. Another thing that can happen with women is that you can have an increase in an enzyme in the gut called the beta glucuronidase enzyme. So the gut microbiome actually produces certain bacteria that release this enzyme called the beta glucuronidase enzyme. And some women have too much of that bacteria and therefore too much beta glucuronidase enzyme. And what that enzyme does, it takes oestrogen that's been packaged up and bound in the liver. Which the liver is meant to do. And it deconjugates it, which means it breaks it. Thereby you have more oestrogen. And that excess oestrogen as we know, is going to stimulate histamine. It's going to degranulate mast cells. It's going to get into the brain and send off those histaminergic neurons, releasing histamine. It's going to downregulate the DAO enzyme. When I first started working with hormones and oestrogen and histamine, I would be really focused on balancing hormones and detoxifying oestrogen. Which I still do. But after working with it now for a while. When women are not getting good results quickly, or if their presentation is more on the severe side, I'm more inclined to think that it's really the histamine driving up the oestrogen rather than the other way around. And very commonly what I've seen clinically, especially with regards to migraines, headaches and vertigo, as well as hormone changes. If there's a histamine picture, then it's often coming from the nasal cavity. So what can happen in the nose is that you can get an overgrowth of bacteria. It's called MARCoNS. Multiple antibiotic resistant staphylococci negative. And those bacteria are going to create histamine. I'll do a whole episode on MARCoNS, but essentially most people develop MARCoNS as a result of mould. So mould can get into the nasal cavity and disrupt the mucosal layer in the nose, thereby creating an environment for this bacteria to thrive. And so you can have the bacteria producing histamine. And then also the mould mycotoxins and the fungus that can grow in the nose is also going to release histamine. And it's very close to the brain. So clinically I've just seen a lot of women with hormonal migraines actually have MARCoNS. And it's not until we deal with the MARCoNS and the mould that they get really good results with their hormonal migraines. There's also a patient group that are going to be more prone to having issues with histamine. And that is women in perimenopause. So these women might not have had any histamine symptoms before. No causes of high histamine. And it's simply the hormonal changes that are causing this buildup of histamine in the body. And this is happening because they're either not ovulating and not producing progesterone. And we need progesterone to buffer or reduce the impact of oestrogen on the body. Or they're just not ovulating well and therefore they don't have adequate amounts of progesterone. So certain times during perimenopause, you can actually be way higher in oestrogen compared to progesterone than when you were younger. And you can start developing these symptoms for the first time. I would always urge you to go and check all the root causes of high histamine. Because maybe you had it niggling there in the background, but you didn't actually realize it was such a problem or you kind of ignored it. But now in perimenopause, it's rearing its ugly head. And this is really common. And so you need to go and find the root cause. It's often the case. In some women, it's not, it's simply the hormones. But women going through this perimenopause phase is actually one of the only times I suggest a low histamine diet is just a standalone sort of symptom control. Because in perimenopause, when our hormones are crazy and out of balance, until you kind of get that balance back, you can really just be high histamine due to that hormone imbalance. And reducing histamine in your diet can help a lot with symptoms. So when it comes to supplements that I love, dealing with oestrogen dominance. I really love calcium to glucorate. So calcium d glucorate works on reducing that beta glucuronidase enzyme. And it also works on a liver detoxification pathway called glucuronidation. Now we'll actually talk to you about liver detoxification pathways of oestrogen. So what happens is that oestrogen goes through phase one. liver detoxification processes. A pathway in the liver. And it's governed by a group of enzymes. These are called the CYP enzymes, and it takes oestrogen and converts it into very toxic metabolites until it goes through phase two liver detoxification pathways. We've got A few different phase two pathways. We've got the glucuronidation pathway, the sulfation pathway and the methylation pathway. And all of those pathways require glutathione. So the glucuronidation pathway is actually supported by calcium D glucurate. So when you take calcium D glucarate, it provides the glucuronic acid that helps the glucuronidation pathway run and the conjugates of that pathway. So the oestrogen conjugate, so it's the oestrogen being bound up. They will then pass through the kidneys into the urine. So this is important for women that are chronically constipated. To actually be able to clear these oestrogen via the urine with the support of the calcium D glucrate and the glucuronidation pathway. The sulfation pathway is another pathway that detoxifies oestrogen. So when you take N acetylcysteine, that's providing the sulfur for that sulfation pathway to run. And then we've also got methylation. And methylation is interesting to know is that after oestrogen goes through phase 2 detoxification via methylation, is that those conjugates then need to go through the bowels. So you've got to be careful because you don't want to be pushing the methylation pathway and dumping oestrogen into a gut that's constipated. Because you need to poop out the oestrogen. So we obviously need to be working on the gut and fixing the bowels first. Also, if you've got a lot of high beta glucuronidase enzyme in the gut, you don't want to be pushing the methylation pathway and pushing more oestrogen into the gut, where there's a lot of beta glucuronidase enzyme that's going to just deconjugate that oestrogen again. So, with everything that us naturopaths and nutritionists do, we are really trained to work on the gut first, and it really is true. So we need to be ensuring that the gut health is really good before we start pushing these biochemical pathways in the liver. Because it can often cause adverse reactions. So if you have histamine and oestrogen related symptoms, I urge you to make sure your gut is healthy. You might want to do a stool test. You might want to do a complete microbiome mapping test that actually shows you if you do have high beta glucuronidase enzyme. You also want to make sure you've got lots of healthy beneficial bacteria. You obviously want to make sure you're pooping every day. Well, with complete emptying, you might need to test for SIBO. The classic signs of SIBO are bloating, flatulence, belching, alternating bowels, constipation, diarrhea. You might see folate deficiency in your blood, iron deficiency. One of the big causes of iron deficiency and B12 deficiency is actually SIBO. Before we go any further, I want to speak directly to the practitioners and students listening. If you're intrigued by histamine intolerance and eager to expand your knowledge, particularly around methylation and how to apply this understanding in clinical practice, we offer the Histamine and Methylation Online Group Coaching Course. The only program of its kind. It covers everything you need to know about histamine and methylation, providing both the theory and guidance, you need to treat these issues effectively in clinical practice. To learn more and apply, visit joannekennedynaturopathy.Com. At the same time as detoxifying oestrogen, we also want to try and get progesterone up. So progesterone is interesting. We make progesterone at ovulation and how the body makes it is that we get what's called a dominant follicle. So the follicles grow inside the ovary and the best healthiest one becomes the dominant follicle. And that follicle releases the egg at ovulation. Then that follicle forms a tissue called the corpus luteum. And it's actually a rather big tissue and it uses a lot of energy. And what we see in our patient group is that people have chronic inflammation and oxidative stress. So all of the things that are driving up histamine are causing inflammation. Histamine is a, is an inflammatory response in the body. So common things like chronic illness, sugar, Gluten, herbicides, pesticides, stress cortisol. This is definitely raising inflammation in the body. So a supplement that is also really good at reducing inflammation and oxidative stress is N acetylcysteine or glutathione. So N acetylcysteine is providing some sulfur for the transsulfuration pathway. That's sulfation pathway in the liver. And glutathione and N acetylcysteine are very potent antioxidants. So it really helps with the health of that corpus luteum. So there are other nutrients we need to make progesterone. These include zinc, B6, iodine, vitamin D and iron. So you really need to make sure you've got good amounts of these nutrients as well. So we need to get the progesterone up, which can sort of help buffer the oestrogen. When it comes to supplementing with methyls, in particular SAMe that can help a lot with women's ooestrogen and histamine issues. I do just caution to probably get your histamine bucket down first. So work on all the major causes of why you have high histamines in the first place and just start detoxifying your oestrogen with calcium dglucorate. Get your nutrients in that support your progesterone. You might need to take bio identical progesterone. Get the N acetylcysteine in to help your corpus luteum quality. And then go in with SAMe, which can really, really help detoxify oestrogen and histamine. Is just what can happen is if your causes are not purely a methylation issue, taking SAMe will just break down histamine really fast, and it can often come out as an adverse reaction. Which is worsening of any of your symptoms. Ladies, if you'd like to learn more about how hormonal imbalances can drive up histamine levels and what to do about it, I have a 40 minute webinar on this fascinating topic. In this webinar, I cover What hormonal imbalance actually means, how estrogen can drive up histamine levels, the signs and symptoms of estrogen dominance and progesterone deficiency, the estrogen detoxification pathways. This is a must know for practitioners and students, as well as my favorite supplements for hormone imbalance, and much more. You can find the webinar at joannekennedynaturopathy.com. Just go to shop webinars. You can also use discount code HORMONES to enjoy 20 percent off. So it's just a really interesting thing. I didn't learn about this at college and no one was looking at it. I was working with female hormone specialists, naturopaths. A lot of them didn't actually know about this link between histamine and oestrogen. And that was about 10 years ago. And I can tell you what, once you see it, you can't unsee it. So I urge you, if you're having these symptoms at ovulation or before menstruation, symptoms of nausea, motion sickness, vertigo, headaches, migraines, anxiety. No. It can be low progesterone, but it also can be high oestrogen. High oestrogen stimulating histamine. So ladies, there's so much we can do to help with hormone balancing. There's so many amazing supplements and herbal medicines to help regulate your cycle. If you are in perimenopause, I urge you to find a doctor. Who is up for prescribing hormones. It can help so much. Potentially you need to take some bioidentical progesterone. So if you're not ovulating well, if you're not ovulating at all, and you've still got a lot of oestrogen, then progesterone can be really, really helpful. Just a warning for women. It's hard to say the age, but if you're just not that really oestrogen dominant anymore. So when you're sort of getting older. Definitely sort of over 45. Just be careful with how you supplement with calcium to glucrate. So you probably don't want to be taking it every day because it can drop your oestrogen too low. So if you're getting symptoms at ovulation, you can start on around day 7 to 10. Or if you're getting symptoms just in that luteal phase, then you can sort of start from day 14 onwards. You know women with endometriosis or fibroids, you potentially can be benefiting from taking it every day, absolutely. So just make sure you're working with a clinician that knows what they're dealing with when it comes to your hormones. Because we need oestrogen. We need it to support ovulation. And if we don't ovulate, we don't have progesterone. So that's just, if we detoxify our oestrogen too much, that just defeats the purpose. So it's all about the balance. So we're here to help. If you require help with your hormones. If you require help with your histamine issues, we see patients globally for consults via zoom. I've also got an e bundle, which is an ebook and a video masterclass. Just small little video snippets all around histamine, the major causes, the testing you can do, my treatment options that I use in my clinical practice. It's really well researched. So if you'd like to work with your current practitioner, you can take that eBundle to them as it is well researched. So they will definitely want to see that and it will help them get on board with what you need to do, what you need to do regarding testing. And they can potentially help you with treatments around some of the causes that are identified with you. And for practitioners and students. Don't forget I have my histamine and methylation online group coaching course. It's the only course of its kind. It will teach you everything you need to know about the theory, as well as how you apply this theory in clinical practice with clear protocols. And we have live zoom meetings every week. So you'll be learning from me. You'll learn everything that I've learned in my clinical practice that has got me amazing results with my patients. So that's a wrap, everyone. I hope you've enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Histamine Well. And if you know anyone suffering with PMS, PMDD, hormone imbalances, perimenopause issues, so migraines and headaches. Be sure to share this episode with them. If you have any questions you'd like answered or have a topic that you'd like me to discuss on future episodes, please go to my website, joannekennedynaturopathy.com where you can provide us with that information. I'll see you next time. Until then, take care and be well.